“We have been punished for making the energy transition”

one of Susanna Muhammad was one of the most influential voices at last year’s climate summit. Colombia’s Minister of Environment and Sustainable Development has become one of the leaders in climate negotiations because of her country’s strange situation: a state that produces fossil fuels that wants to leave them behind, but faces all kinds of financial obstacles. Have to face it.

Therefore, his presence at this Baku summit focused on financing and his message in favor of reforming the international financial architecture are of particular importance. Muhammad, president of the recently held COP16 on Biodiversity in Cali, and recognized by TIME as one of the 100 most influential people in global climate action, from RTVE in the capital of Azerbaijan before returning to his country devastated by severe floods. Let’s talk.

Q: We are in a very complex global context, with Trump’s victory, two major wars going on… countries’ resources probably focus very little on the environment.

Answer: It’s a disaster, it’s a paradox. When resources are needed the resources are there, they can emerge in an instant. The Paris Agreements are legally binding, so it is the political responsibility for the developing world to define concessional resources.

,It is a paradox that in the North, where there is no sun, renewable energy has tripled, and not in countries where access to energy is needed. ,

It’s really a contradiction that when we said at the Dubai summit that we were starting to triple renewable energy, today in the global North, where there is no sun, and in countries that need access, renewables Energy is being doubled and tripled. Energy, where we can bring a lot of vulnerable populations into the energy matrix and where we can be more efficient in generating renewable energy, there is no investment.

These are the contradictions that lie at the heart of the discussion. The injustice of this climate financing is beginning to be recognized, hopefully we can achieve a package that will renew confidence that, yes, in a world that is very complex geopolitically.

Question: If Trump withdraws from climate agreements at this summit, do you think Europe should be one of the actors taking the lead on financing?

Answer: Yes, but I think Europe is quite timid and retreating. Not being fully prepared to take that leadership, that’s a big void. On the other hand, there will also be China, which has been committed to multilateralism and developing countries. We need to see other leadership emerge.

Question: But do you think China is going to join the group of countries that donate climate funds (as most developed countries demand)?

Answer: China, from its privileged position, says it is willing to make more commitments. I believe this is a signal to the North that a renewed financing package can be prepared here, each with its own perspective.

Question: What influence do you think the oil countries have in the negotiations?

A: Here’s one lobby Strong oil that appears in the presence of companies. This is casting a shadow on the COP, but we should also pay attention to the issue of decarbonization, because today there is no discussion about the economic transformation of producers and I do not think it is a trivial discussion, including in a country like Colombia , which depends for its tax revenues on coal and oil exports.

Question: Do oil companies take advantage of the summit to do business?

Answer: I was very surprised by what clearly happens in Azerbaijan. I believe that the COP must be reclaimed democratically, that the language must stop being so technical, that those who are on the front lines of the climate crisis can participate, that it be opened up to many other stakeholders. They have become closed and technical places and then lobby Corporate is creating more impact.

This is completely disproportionate to the reality of climate victims in the world. At the Cali Biodiversity COP in Colombia, we demonstrated that COPs can be created that are for the people, open and democratic.

Question: How is global warming affecting Colombia?

Answer: All of us in the tropics, where we have not caused greenhouse gases, are most vulnerable. Here we face crises one after the other without any pause. The El Nino phenomenon caused fires and drought, followed by rain and floods. What ends up happening is that the government’s fiscal position starts to tighten, and the high level of debt that Covid has left us with makes the situation simply unsustainable.

Countries like Colombia are in the sandwich, we are not even the least developed, so we no longer get development cooperation, but we also do not have the financial capacity to manage and respond as well to what is happening with the climate crisis. Development of our country.

That’s why we call for this reform of the global financial system, which takes debt into account, so that we can properly capitalize on climate change and also begin to pay for losses and damages. $400 million spent on emergency care this week, where does it come from? Where is the multilateral funding to support the most vulnerable populations in Colombia?

Question: Is Colombia going to diversify its economy?

Answer: It is in that scheme, it has an investment portfolio. This diversification leads to industries that strengthen a country’s climate resilience, that generate added value, that generate more work, more industrialization, because if the ecological transition leaves the most vulnerable behind, the only The thing that we are doing is to hand over the social base right. Denial of extreme climate change. That is also a threat to democracy.

,“If ecological change leaves the most vulnerable behind, the only thing we are handing over to the extreme right is those who deny the social foundation.”,

Q: What financial difficulties do you face in quitting fossil fuels?

Q: We have a high level of debt and access to capital is very expensive because we are low investment grade. These economic conditions are not best for economic transformation. That is why Colombia has created a country platform with the Inter-American Development Bank, with all sectors of its government and society, to formulate the investment package we hope to achieve.

Colombia is a test case for whether we really have the international tools to help us make that leap.

,Colombia is a test case of whether we really have the international tools to help us make that leap.,

Question: What changes need to be made to the international financial structure so that you can access financing with better conditions?

Answer: The President (of Colombia, Gustavo) Petro is talking about a financial agreement for climate change that allows us access to capital at a very low long-term rate for the transition, because it has to be done quickly.

The financial system is like it lives in another world, they don’t realize it when they evaluate risk. If you have flooding that impacts your productive land, your risk level increases, and your access to capital becomes more expensive, then it seems like we have a better time to try to make changes and mitigate the effects of climate change. Have been punished for what we did not cause.